Sunday, June 3, 2007

My Road to Atheism, Part 1: What took me so long

My road to atheism was long and difficult. I’ve only actively identified myself as an unbeliever for less than a year, but the questioning started long before that. I’d like to explore, for my own benefit, and hopefully the benefit of anyone under similar circumstances, what took me so long.

I come from a family of 7th-generation Mormons. On my mother’s side, the first convert was a man named James Lake, Jr., who was taught and baptized by Brigham Young himself in the late 1830s, shortly after the foundation of the church. On my father’s side it wasn’t much later, as one of my ancestors was taught and baptized over in Europe by one of the early missionaries. People on both sides of my family came across the plains in the wagon train with the pioneers, and much of my family tree around that time is gnarled with polygamy. Today, the vast majority of my extended family is Mormon, and the vast majority of my friends, throughout most of this story, were Mormons.

Growing up, I was extremely devout. I did my best to avoid sex, drugs, and booze, and for the most part didn't even swear. I participated in the church youth activities, including the Boy Scouts, and generally did what I was expected to do. My freshman year of college I argued openly with my biology professor about evolution. I wrote a letter to the editor of my local paper in which I mourned the approval of RU-486 (the “abortion pill”), calling it a “triumph for unchaste women.” I was also the Sunday School president of the local congregation during that time.

Then, I embarked on a 2-year mission for the church when I was 19, traveling thousands of miles from home and preaching the gospel to those poor souls who hadn’t yet heard it. I rose through the ranks of trainer, district leader and zone leader to the highest available position for a missionary, that of Assistant to the President, a highly coveted position of great authority. I was known as a pillar of faith, and one of the most knowledgeable “scriptorians” in the mission. I read the entire Bible, front to back, without even noticing the times when God commanded genocide and rape. My faith-filter was highly tuned. Although I did become aware of several important contradictions in the Bible, Mormons believe that the Bible is only true insofar as it is translated correctly, so it didn't pose a challenge. I had scripture verses memorized that I could wield in almost any situation and to answer almost any question.

I attended Brigham Young University, as did my wife, who had also served a full-time mission. We were married in the temple shortly after we graduated on the same day, and were promised that we would be together not just in this life, but for "time and all eternity" in a secret ceremony only open to those Mormons who meet the rigorous standards of temple attendance. There I covenanted with God and my wife to remain ever-faithful, upon pain of hellfire.

As you have probably noticed, my reasons for staying faithful were legion (to borrow the Biblical usage of the word). It was a storybook Mormon life, had I not been so dissatisfied. I was destined for high positions of leadership; indeed, my patriarchal blessing (a special prophetic blessing that Mormon teens receive; basically a glorified fortune-telling) foresaw that I would “preside over the quorums of the church.”

On the inside, however, things were much different. I remember sending letters to my Mission President in the early months of my mission asking unanswerable questions and being told that I just needed to have faith, which I took to heart. I remember telling some other missionaries that if I wasn't a Mormon I would probably be an atheist. I remember noticing contradictions between the supposedly perfect Book of Mormon and the supposedly perfect Joseph Smith translation of the Bible. I remember writing an in-depth paper at BYU about the Mormon persecution in Missouri and discovering that the evidence suggested that the reasons they were driven out of town had nothing to do with their religion, and everything to do with their arrogance, pugnacity, unwillingness to associate with the other townsfolk, and the huge voting bloc that they represented, giving them near absolute power over local political matters. This information was not welcomed by my devout professor, and was certainly not to be found in any of the (what I even then considered to be) white-washed church histories.

I began studying evolution and discovered it to be a supremely elegant explanation for the things that the church used fairy tales to explain. I actually discovered that the church authorities had softened their stance on evolution several decades before, and that it is taught as truth in BYU biology classes, but that it just hadn't caught on among the general membership of the church. This was a relief for me, but I still struggled to understand how to reconcile evolution with the church’s great emphasis on Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden. If Adam and Eve are only metaphorical, then the entire doctrine of the church crumbles, and yet here was evolution being taught at BYU.

It was during this time that I basically went numb. For several years I stopped thinking deeply about religion, fearing the outcome of doing so. My church attendance went downhill, and when I did show up it was mostly for social reasons. It was during this time that I married my wife, a very devout Mormon. My unwillingness to address the issue extended even to her, as I avoided religious discussion with her on anything more than a superficial level. I finally began to think about things a few months after our wedding, which led me to cautiously express some of my doubts. Despite my care, the mere mention of doubt was shocking enough to my wife that I decided to go back to not thinking about it for another year or so.

When I did begin thinking about religion again, it was not Mormon doctrine that dominated my thoughts, but the existence of God at all. I had come to be a logical, reasonable person except when it came to religion, and I wondered if I wasn't compromising my personal integrity in order to believe in it. I began thinking about the odds that any religion was true, let alone the one that I happened to be born into. I began exploring the origins of religion, and came to the conclusion that they were all most likely fiction. Still, I resisted. It was not enough to allow me to liberate myself. I felt like I had too much at stake and risked throwing nearly everything away. It did cause me to reopen a bit of dialogue with my wife, however, albeit to mixed results. The consequences of "coming out" loomed large, and I went back into my numb little shell, refusing to think about it.

A few months later, I happened upon a speech given by Richard Dawkins. I can't be sure, but I think it was his reading and subsequent Q&A session at Randolph-Macon Woman's College in October of last year. It resonated with me, and I sought out more. I ended up watching and reading everything I could find on the internet by Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris. It was during this time (I think October or November of last year), that I announced to my wife that I no longer believed in God, although I had really stopped believing some several months before, and had lived a virtually faith-free life for even longer than that.

While the arguments of Dawkins and Harris were certainly useful in battling my seemingly never-ending stream of internal religious justification, their effect on me was not necessarily one of convincing, but one of encouragement. I later read The God Delusion, Letter to a Christian Nation, and the End of Faith, further solidifying my desire to be an out-of-the-closet rationalist.

The experience of finally acknowledging my lack of belief, of finally accepting the feelings that had been welling up for so long, of finally putting religious belief behind me for good, is one I’ll never forget. The feelings that accompanied my deconversion are strikingly similar to the feelings described by many of those people who I personally converted to Mormonism. It was a great relief; a giant weight lifted; a rush of excitement. The flood of intellectual nourishment that followed as I sought out knowledge and explored evidence without fear of where it might lead was, and is, constantly exciting.

You see, it wasn’t the rules and restrictions of Mormonism that most bothered me. For the most part I didn’t really mind them. It was the intellectual bondage and the requisite distrust of science that was, to a scientific mind, unbearable.

Next time: The aftermath

60 comments:

Veronicque said...

I'll be the first to publish a comment and say 'Good on you'.

With the exception of what you have written, I have no idea of the disillusionment and mental trauma you must have put yourself through.

It seems to me you are out the other side. Welcome to a community as diverse as it is committed to rationalism. We are an eclectic bunch with different values and modes of expression. We have different levels of expertise in different disciplines.

However, there are many sites on the internet where you will find discussion groups. A favourite of mine is:

www.richarddawkins.net

You have read some of his books and others as well. You will find lively discussion and a virtual community that will support you. Please visit us. I await your second post.

Cheers
V

Aaron said...

Congratulations. It took me a few years to go from Baptist Christian to proud atheist and I've been looking forward ever since.

An open mind is a wonderful thing to have.

Anonymous said...

You made it to the new world buddy. Well done. Those of us who were born here don't know how lucky we are.

FVThinker said...

Though not nearly as indoctrinated as you; my catholic upbringing was something that I had to walk away from. As I often describe it . . . it is an epiphany when you finally self identify and serpents don't crawl from your mouth (which was the mental image I had from catholicism).

Welcome to the new world of unencumbered thought.

Darwinator said...

Great post,

I'm looking forward to reading more. I'm particularly interested in the reactions of your family and friends.

Cheers,
D

EverydayEconomist said...

Interesting thoughts.

I follow your story in many ways. I served as a district leader and never made it to "Zone leader" or "AP".

However, I have some issues that I can't reconsile with Athiesm. I'd love to talk about them with someone who knows where I'm coming from.

I see the logical hiccups in the faith, however, I've also seen / been a part of enough to know that there most certainly is a higher power that intervenes.

One can state with all the logic in the world that even if there is a God, why would he care about what we eat and drink and whether a two-year-old has a splinter. And yet I've seen it time and again.

Love to discuss it, contact me if you have time

Secularskeptic said...

@everydayeconomist

I'd love to discuss things with you but didn't find an email address for you. Feel free to contact me at secularskeptic at gmail dot com

Jim said...

Bravo. I too was raised Mormon and went through a similar process. I feel lucky that I was able to start the process quite a bit earlier than you -- early enough that I dodged going on a mission though I still hadn't "come out" to my family.

The affects of religious indoctrination run deep in the mind. I still catch myself having irrational thoughts, decades after I realized that religion is superstition and nothing more. I'm interested to hear what you have to say about your process of undoing deep indoctrination.

Anonymous said...

It is so exciting to read stories like yours because I can identify with so many of your feelings and experiences. I am still in the process of walking away from the (Evangelical) faith, and it has been an interesting ride. It is when you begin to leave the church that you experience religion's true bigotry and harshness.

I'd love to read more about your story. How did your wife react? What about your parents and loved ones? I wish you the best of luck, and I really hope that your journey will not affect your marriage and family. It is tragic to lose the love of the closest people because their religion is so dogmatic and inflexible.

Chris

Joe said...

Thank you for sharing your story.

Anonymous said...

Hello!

You mentioned that you read most of the works by Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris. Have you tried reading books by Lee Strobel or Josh McDowell? They defend the Christian faith, rationally and a well logically thought out arguments.

Another person I would recommend is William Lane Craig. Google him up and read some of his articles.

I'm not asking you to convert from your atheism, but just asking you to find out the arguments from the other side. You seem like a rational person, so I hope that you'll read the books by those that I mentioned.

If in any case after reading their arguments, you are still an atheist, fair enough. =D

Anonymous said...

I've been following the same path as you, as an LDS faithful turned skeptic. The most interesting part of the journey for me so far has been trying to replace the valuable parts of my former faith with something that does not conflict with truth--things like, what do you do when you feel scared? or guilty? or hurt? These very human aspects have been dealt with well by religion, but not as well by rationalism and skepticism.

It's gratifying, at least, to find others making the same, difficult trek and seeing the wonder of the world for what it is.

Anonymous said...

Enjoy your "arm of flesh" journey while you can, but when the winds begin to blow and the storm begins to descend, please know that there will be a window of opportunity for you to accept the grace of God.

elmer said...

thanks for sharing, been there from a catholic perspective. I do hope you still manage to keep life-long friends within, as what's ultimately important is the bonds that tie us together. We are social animals afterall and our purpose in life is to build and experience community… some of us need to encumber it with religious paraphernalia, for me reason, strong ethics, and a sense of sharing and bonding is enough.

Anonymous said...

Hello,

Seems like you are an all-nothing person, radical in their thoughts.

When you believed in God, that was true, when you not, that is the truth.

Personally I believe in God, and I feel myself very critic and rational(I have made a living from that).

Don't go to Richard Hawkings page if you want interesting debates, there you find arguments so onanists over their group as a closed religious community.

All the people that are there are so convinced of something(that god doesn't exist) as the other community is of the contrary.

I don't believe in creationism, or evolution either, I think the real answer is out there, undiscovered.

Darwing just created an hypotesis, people thought it was absurd, they knew the real answer(creationism).Now people behaves the same way,they just have the real answer(evolution) and don't want to think anything different.

We know ADN is real, and that we animals has the same base code.This is fact. The reason of this IS NOT PROVEN.

You need a lot of miracles to justify:
-Creation of the Unverse
-Creation of live.
-Creation of auto-repair.
-Creation of cellular beings(with millions of components).
-Creation of macrocellular beings.
-Creation of sexuality(natural selection).
-Creation of animals.
-Animals that fly(we learn in 1900!!),go to 1000 meters under the sea, use ultrasounds, see light, sense with millions of receptors, are able to talk and walk(we don't not how to do this yet.)see the 3D with only eyes(we cant do the same)...

-A million more miracles we take for granted.

Evolution says: One day a miracle happend, by accident.

If so many accidents happend, the probability those accidents happened in other places before is 1.That someone created us the same way we create computers and in 200 years life, is as feasible as evolution theory.

Sorry, I'm spanish. Greetings

bmcworldcitizen said...

Yeah Josh McDowell, that hack kept me confused for years. Almost everything he has written I now discover is at best misinformation and some of it outright lies.

Whatever you do, don't touch McDowell with a barge pole, he is pure poison.

FVThinker said...

Anonymous said

"Have you tried reading books by Lee Strobel or Josh McDowell?"


I, for one, DID read Strobel (and others) as he was the most recommended by the theistic side. IMHO, rigor is quite laughably absent in his books. The non-theistic arguments are enormously more compelling.

Margaret said...

You may want to check out "Confessions of an Anonymous Coward." He's also a former Mormon, now atheist. His blog can be found here: http://acoward.blogspot.com/

Lantern Bearer said...

It has been my good fortune to have arrived at a qualified atheism by years of exposure to religious dogma and doctrine that had no rational basis.

I do qualify my non-theistic or even deistic approach by looking to the links and tendrils that connect all life and all matter in rational and observable ways. The intelligence that is causal for those links in this universe and for all others is God-like.

I have no criticism for the recognition of these links through the gathering of those of like mind. It is only when the forms of recognition, worship, over ride what is rational and beneficial for the many and becomes a test of fellowship that is tuned for exclusion.

My struggle has been that of determining the characteristics of limitation that would prevail in concepts and limitations of a big bang as opposed to the infinite possibilities of the grand canvas of an open system. Canvas is a limitation here also. I use it figuratively.

Morally and ethically, I have chosen a path of live and let live. I am no Al Capp Schmo, however, in that I would not give my self up without fear or remorse if casually predated by my fellows. There may well be situations in which ultimate sacrifice of self is required. I believe that I would face that full ahead. It would be the blind side attack and the covert taking that I would resist. I accept the simple ethic of the nebulously historical Yesuha. It has come that I am able to disregard almost all that has been scripted as gospel since Constantine and Helena. They choreographed the end of Christianity and set up the overlay of Christianism on the old worn stretcher that was the canvas of the Roman Empire.

For now, I sail on adjusting my course as need arises.

Godless Bastard said...

All I can say is, welcome home to the rationality you were born with! (Ain't years and years of deprogramming a bitch?) But at least now you can enjoy many years of living with the freedom to think for yourself and KNOWING that YOU are in control of your life, not some imaginary sky daddy or his non-existent son. Now if you feel like getting REALLY frothy with your new-found rationalism, stop by my website (GodlessBastard.com) and vent a little more. 8-)

normdoering said...

You're blog is linked on www.richarddawkins.net and you'll probably get a lot more visitors now.

I wrote about my own journey of leaving the faith here:
http://www.totse.com/en/religion/christianity/notcrst1.html
http://www.totse.com/en/religion/christianity/notcrst2.html

And I have a blog too:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/

In case you want to compare notes.

normdoering said...

Sorry, those links don't work:
Hope is the Bait
Fear is the Trap

A Blog from Hell

Richard Hawkins said...

ohh how sad to hear you've dumbed down. what a poor choice.

evolution is false, accidents dont happen. God created it all. with time you'll smarten up.

Jackson said...

Nice to hear the story of another mormon-gone-atheist. I experienced a lot of the stuff you did, but I escaped (yes, I really call it that) before I went on a mission. Looking forward to hearing more.

Sparrow said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
JMC said...

my congratulations on breaking away from such a dangerously close-knit religious group. it's not easy to turn away from everything you've been brought up to believe, but it definitely shows your independence and character.

bastardface said...

good for you, bro ... I was hardcore Catholic until the age of 22 or so. Now, not only do I have an open mind, but I no longer want to kill myself every day ...

hotsabi said...

Hey,
Just because you were born into a "false" religion, doesn't mean you should lose all faith.
Being a born again Christian myself I take any interpretations of Gods work as being imperfect. i.e. man is imperfect, hence his understanding of God will also be imperfect.
Give your self time and his work becomes obvious.
have faith!

Anonymous said...

You describe yourself as having been the very exemplar of Mormon faith.

I find it interesting to contemplate that it was the very strength of that faith which undid itself:

If you were so sure of your faith you believed it could withstand researching the truth, that you could consider the alternatives and be sure of finding their flaw, you may have been less able to resist the consequences than someone with insufficient faith to dare consider debating their religion.

Kind of funny consequence.

Anonymous said...

Please, please share with us some of the specifics of the contradictions you mention. Bible contradictions are well known, but contradictions in the Mormon teachings are not well known, at least to us outsiders. I have a few LDS friends I would love to engage in dialog.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your story. You should consider sharing it with exmormon.org, they house a lot of stories from people who have gone through very similar experiences.

Disclaimer: I have no relation with the owners of the website, but I am an ex-member of the Mormon Church.

Anonymous said...

Nice write-up; looking forward to part 2. I was also born into Mormonism and now consider myself an atheist. I got out at age 16 after a rough few years where I found it difficult to reconcile what I was hearing in church with rational thought. Fortunately, my early exit spared me the further pain of a partiarchical blessing, becoming a priest, going on a mission, taking out endowments or getting married in the temple, though, of course, I am familiar with all of these rituals since many of my friends and family are still practicing mormons. Wishing you the best in your journey forward!

George said...

As an ex-Mormon myself, I'd like to say congrats. I hope you live your life to the fullest!

Anonymous said...

I actually just did this in reverse about 47 years ago and couldn't be happier. It's not as black and white as you think. And a million comments full of agreement don't make it right for you.

ldtorges said...

Wow--your story sounds almost identical to my husband's--even down to the timing of announcing his atheism last October. He and I were both raised in the Mormon church, descendents of handcart pioneers. He was an Eagle Scout and served a mission. We both graduated from BYU and married in the Salt Lake Temple. My disillusionment with the church preceeded his--it coincided with my growing feminism. Scripture study and the temple ceremony combined with all the lessons on being a good little wife and supporting the priesthood only emphasized to me that God doesn't care much for women at all, except as objects in a grand plot. For awhile I was convinced that the only way for women in the church to have equality was to expound on the Mormon Mother in Heaven doctrine and allow women to have the priesthood. I wrote a paper on Mormon women and inequality for a sociology class I was taking and made the case for Mother in Heaven and women and the priesthood. My professor commented in the margins that, to an outsider, this is all just arguing over different versions of fantasy and superstition. I realized that, if it's all untrue, then arguing for my version of untruth seemed rather pointless. As Dawkins puts it, it's arguing over the size and shape of fairy wings.

I occasionally attended church with my husband and children after that, but I felt uncomfortable there. I knew people felt sorry for my poor, faithful husband having to deal with a "rebellious" wife. She wasn't "hearkening to his counsel" as she had promised to do in the temple. When my husband out of the blue announced his atheism last fall (it had been brewing on the inside for a long time as with you), I felt a sense of relief. All of my resentment toward the church seemed to dissipate, since I didn't have to play the part of the rebellious wife who didn't know her place in the hierarchal Mormon household. It has been VERY difficult with family, and most of my family doesn't even know yet. I don't know if I can tell them, although they will surely find out when it comes time to baptize our second child. How is your wife handling this? Do you have children? How are they handling it?

BecomingAgnostic said...

I've lately been having similar thoughts of doubt, coming from a Baptist Christian background. I don't know if I call myself an atheist yet (in fact, I guess I don't), but these are certainly topics I've been pondering. This has been particularly true as I find my liberal-thinking self increasingly at odds with popularized Christian beliefs and Christian propaganda. I do feel somewhat out of place at church, and the Sundays when I skip always seem well-spent... I know if I ever do "come out" as an atheist to my friends and family, they will be devastated. I look forward to reading more of your posts...

Anonymous said...

I totally understand what you're going through. I had a situation very parallel to your own only I was breaking free from the Seventh-Day Adventist Church.

Thanks for sharing.

-jason

David said...

I'm a closet atheist, or rather, I don't preach it. There is no logic behind any of the fantastic stories in religion - in fact, flying spaghetti monsters and zenu are just a couple examples of how ridiculous the whole "higher being" concept is. Such a farce - all of it.
Unfortunately, it's a sad fact that most of the world is so dumb as to believe in fairy tales - it's as if most people have never grown up.

wozza said...

Bravo. Well done you.

I never believed in God until I met the recovery movement, who tried to convince I should believe. After 20 years of pretending to be something I'm not, it was a huge relief to admit "No, I don't believe". Now I'm getting on with my life.

I particularly liked how you compared abandoning faith to the feeling converts can have. I felt the same way.

Anonymous said...

This is the caveat of those who are of the Mormon faith and are gifted with great intelligence; Of those who truly try hard initially and really succeed at first earlier on (ZL -> AP, I too was an AP Cebu Mission 2002-2005) because of their intelligence and ability to learn.

You said it yourself, you felt the same or similar kind of elation both the moment you joined the church and converted others as you did when you decided to finally follow your inner apostasy. The spirit of apostasy and it's enticement to finally surrender to it is very difficult for those with intelligence to make the choice to not follow. So much "evidence" is out there teamed up with so much lack of it. Not only that, but now you have a growing "club" of "join us" atheists willing to support and furnish your path to falling for it. ("How dare He says that!" said the atheist militants just now)

Lets pause there for a moment to take a break.

I believe choices are relative. Some are emotionally driven. Others based on evidence, while others on the lack there of. Further choices are based on personal experiences of the unexplainable or usually attributed to as spiritual by both emotional and evidential information.

The truly intelligent will know that generally emotional response is irrational and can lead to many wrong conclusions. Because we are aware of this, it adds another level of difficulty. We are intelligent, given a lot of gifts because of it, but still have strong emotions that we try to control but sometimes can't when we are one of the first or the first on a discovery of some 'truth of the moment'.

We are a juggling act of 18 balls when most people only have 8. 8 is still a lot, but 18? Sometimes somethings got to give. Others somehow figure out how to keep juggling those 18 and endure to the end. While some feel they just can't do it and find people to confirm that suspicion and desire to believe them and do so because it is so tempting.

With that said, I said the above not as a poke at anyone (except the militants, you guys are just in it for the "friends" and chic of it.)
but as a calling out of the vast majority that most of us who become atheist legitimately, go through. These are they who I address in this comment. Not those with grudges or those who just wanted to be part of the in-crowd.

Okay lets continue.

For members and previous members of the LDS church that have been given seemingly "high marks" throughout their "career" in the church thus far, and intelligence oriented activities with life in general, It's almost 50/50. 50 will leave the church thinking they found some indisputable evidence against it as they search around, while the other 50 become the general authorities of the future because they found that they can experience a spiritual connection that needs no definition while they go to their day job at the local M-theory lab.

I believe in my heart that you are telling the truth with your initial experiences as a missionary, the journey you took with seeking out information and the pitfalls you had while finding it fueling the need to continue to try to disprove rather than continuing to try to prove. Intelligent people make mistakes too, which includes accidentally seeking information solely for one extreme or the other rather than trying to really read both sides and decide.

Finding reason to question is the basis of the LDS faith, if you never actually had the opportunity to learn that from the start, I apologize. At least one instructor you had through your membership should have brought this up.

You are indeed of high intelligence unfortunately it's a double edged sword. The conclusions you made with the information you gathered in particular mostly from sources that seem generally non-friendly to anyone that doesn't believe what they want you to stop believing in are just and well deservedly found. Seek and ye shall find. You found what you were looking for and there we have it.

Again I believe choices are relative. Yours is based on honest and sound findings based on the information you chose to look for and find and conclude with.

I do know that ultimately in the end every one of us will find out that for the most part we probably were all wrong in many ways anyways. While I believe in God, have had the opportunity to have many spiritual experiences that are irrefutable, I still am sure the only perfect knowledge we will truly have is in the end.

The wisest men know they know nothing.

Good luck on your journey. Please know you are still loved no matter what you might come up with. As are we all.

I love you Brother, thank you for trying your best! That really is all God asks. Even if you happen to go another way while here on Earth. When all is said and done, I hope to have some good discussion with you on the other side if indeed we find out there happens to be one. I can't wait for that day!

Anonymous said...

Good job!

I was raised as a Mormon cousin - a Jehovah's Witness - and so I can empathize.

My path to atheism concluded when I was still a teen but I think in a lot of ways it is harder to act on that logic when you're older / married within the religion.

Good luck in your new life with your new freedom and clarity of thought!

Anonymous said...

I have to tell you buddy, it takes A LOT of courage and a very keen mind to be able to pull away from the influence of a religious life such as yours. I remember when I came to the same conclusion as you did, it was not easy and I grew up in a relatively religion free family. I am happy to see that there are people out there that are at least willing to question their faith and go intellectually where they have not ventured before. Congrats! Now you truly are a free person!

opaquevision said...

I am 19, most of my friends are leaving on missions, my brothers both went, and I am an atheist. I never really believed, but I think the thing that convinced me more than anything else in the world that there was no god, Mormons (or really any believers of any faith)are no happier than non Mormons.

Anonymous said...

Refreshing to hear -- my own deconversion (or as my wife and I like to say, "I was born just fine the first time!") started years ago, after my upbringing in the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod.
It took a decade to recognize, but it resulted in feeling free and able to live. Contrary to what most theists believe, recognizing that there is no god doesn't lead to depression and despair. Religious belief is where the problem lies. I've been most interested in understanding the origin of the theistic meme itself, and how the "thought virus" has spread so vigorously. Related to this, I've found several books by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy (The Jesus Mysteries, among others) to be excellent resources for understanding how Christian belief systems came into being.
I look forward to reading more of your journey toward truth and freedom.

Michael said...

I'm not sure whether to cheer or be sad.

You've gone from one ditch into another, and traded the weakness (lack of logical and consistency) for the strength of the other (freed from dogma and given the ability of critical thinking), but at the same time you also left the strength (faith) for the weakness (lack of spiritual experiences, and gnosis).

One truth does not negate another truth.

Both the religious right, and atheist left, are incomplete.

While the religious are correct in that there is a God, they are so divorced from reality by their inconsistency and absurdities of their Bibles, that they don't even understand how our Higher Self appears to us as God, let alone the layer of God above that. As the church father Origen wrote "What man is found such an idiot as to suppose that God planted trees in paradise in Eden, like a husbandman, and planted therein the tree of life, perceptible to the eyes and senses, which gave life to the eater thereof; and another tree which gave to the eater thereof a knowledge of good and evil? I believe that every man must hold these things for images, under which the hidden sense lies concealed."

In time, you may even have the fortune of having the NDE/OBE and _knowing_ that man's understanding of Life, Conscious, and Time is severely ignorant.

The best thing you can do as an atheist is keep an open mind. Just don't make your anti-religion your new religion.

Congratulations in your step towards understanding fate and free-will.

ElGuapo said...

Interesting comments, quite the diverse group here! For me it was all about figuring out how to reconcile Mormonism with reality. It was never about God's existence, and oddly enough I think becoming an atheist was nearly automatic for me once the wtf moment came and I realized the church wasn't what it claimed to be. I can't say I ever entertained the notion of becoming a mainstream Christian.

Someone asked what issues specific to Mormonism they could share with LDS friends. If only it were that simple! While all the exmos here are evidence that people can see the light, it rarely starts with a piece of faith-demoting evidence. There's a lot of programming to be undone first. I find the best things to ask a believing Mormon are not about polygamy, but things like "If the LDS church were not 'true' how would you know?" and "Would you want to know?"

But since you asked, there are a host of things you could point to that show Mormonism's claims to be demonstrably false. Try googling "Book of Abraham" or "Helen Mar Kimball" or "Book of Mormon anachronisms." Enjoy!

ElGuapo said...

Oh, and if EverydayEconomist is still here, there are online forums of ex-Mormons that are not all hardline atheists. The most open is probably postmormon.org, and there are also Christians who post at thefoyer.org. I think you'll find either of these to be far more openminded than the zoo at exmormon.org. Feel free to stop by.

karcass said...

Thank you for your eloquent personal history. I can't imagine how difficult it was to go through that struggle, especially when you were so enculturated to Mormonism. Your willingness to go all the way with intellectual honesty is inspiring.

Intelligent Designer said...

I hope your journey hasn't ended. Like you and many others I have been on a journey seeking truth but have come to a different conclusion.

I was a Christian from the time that I was 14 until my mid thirties. By 16 I had read the Bible completely through and discovered several contradictions and things I didn't agree with. However, at the same time I had some religious experiences that I couldn't discount so I continued on with my faith. After all, one doesn't have to believe that the Bible is infallible to be a Christian.

At the time I was also learning about evolution in highschool biology and decided to explore arguments against evolution by creationists and found them convincing.

So unlike you, I can't fall into atheism because I think evolution (by random mutation and natural selection) is about as plausible as Spiderman or the Incredible Hulk.

I only have two years of college physics to go along with my M.S. in applied math and I am able to discern that Richard Dawkins arguments concerning entropy are inherently flawed. I think you have placed too much faith in him. I think of him more as the Billy Graham of atheism than as a scientist.

You should also consider that the ideas of evolution and intelligent design are not incompatible. Evolution driven by intelligent design is a concept I can believe in since I have been doing it for 20+ years as a software developer -- but not evolution random mutation.

I am confident that God exists but I wouldn't want to go beyond that to advocate a religious system.

If you are interested in my reasons against evolution see my blog at http://randystimpson.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

SecularSkeptic -- Be wary of the post above by "Intelligent Designer" (aka Randy Stimpson). I have heard several Christians use the line "I used to be an atheist, but then I was born again", to try and convince atheists to come back to faith. When it later turns out they were in fact lying through their teeth, and didn't ever actually question their faith as you are so courageously doing right now. Be especially wary of people who simply recycle standard Creationist/ID lines like "evolution is just a theory, so it isn't fact" or "random mutation couldn't create humans, it's just too implausible or unlikely". These ID "arguments" have been very easily defeated by science and evolution, as I'm sure you're aware since you've read Dawkins. Anyone who has seriously studied evolution will understand how thoroughly such ID arguments have been disgraced; so anyone who repeats these arguments is very likely to be lying about their "previous atheism".

Good luck with your continued studies. Theistic terror and fear and guilt are deeply and primally ingrained in those who were indoctrinated into it as children (such as me, and I would imagine you as well). But it can be shaken off, especially with support from a community. I'm glad you found RD.net. :)

Paul Dorman said...

Well done! I only wish there were better resources than Dawkins et al. I've always been an atheist, though I think the atheist label itself is redundant. It's like saying I'm an atoothfrairyist, or an afatherchristmasist.

It's tragic that today in modern secular societies even there are people who believe in religious nonsense. There are so many fundamental flaws in religious doctrine that it leaves me breathless.

Conversing with religious people is like trying to reason with someone having a bipolar or schizophrenic episode. You know it's kind of pointless and know the only hope for them is medication.

Atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens are great reading for people who aren't deluded, but as you pointed out, religious people's delusions are so powerful as to completely filter out the nonsense and horror in their own religious tomes.

There are a few though who escape on their own, and it is both beautiful and mystifying as to how the transformation occurs. If we could discover what triggers the journey to inevitable non-belief in religion there would be hope for the world.

You have freed yourself, and now you can see how unfortunate the religious are, and how dangerous religion is.

Intelligent Designer said...

"Be wary of Intelligent Designer" ... that is funny. I didn't know my ideas were threatening.

This attitude reminds me of the time my pastor was telling me not to go to a secular university because it might wreck my faith.

And I am not lying when I say I am a Diest and not a Christian.

Anonymous said...

Congratulations on having the courage and rationality to free yourself from an untruthful doctrine you were raised in to. It can be extremely difficult to do so.

BOBB said...

brian's vid was refreshing
me too
but both george and osama claim to be connected to this god guy so we were in a sense warned
his christian manifestation would also make u think twice. we are using our Western World economic control in such a way as to cause the death of 25,000 people by starvation every day. Not fire, flood or nature, but our subsidized diminution to half price of world food prices leaves them unable to sell their agricultural produce. Almost every one of the 25,000 who died today depended on failed agricultural sales for the livelihood they lost.
This, the most heinous crime in human history, can only be swept under the carpet at the same moral cost as ended the Roman Empire and, more tangibly, at potential physical peril in terms of the generation of terrorism among the 20-year accumulated 1 billion strong army of bereaved relatives.
god's friends do seem a bad lot
bobb

Anonymous said...

I can relate to some of what you shared. In your studying you should read, A New Earth, by Eckhart Tolle. I know that whenever someone tries to tell me to read a book, my first thought is "what are they trying to push on me." But this is nothing like that, it's non-denominational, a very fast read, and is something everyone should read, in their journey of this life.

Anonymous said...

Thank you. I too am an ex-mormon atheist. My wife and I were married in the temple and, along with my two children, is still very active. I had my name removed from records.

I simply don't believe it, but mormonism is persuasive and, along with the obvious tension it causes at home, I find it hard to cope at times. My wife thinks I have let her down, and the church thinks I'm just "striking a pose..."

Any support greatly received....

marshwuk@yahoo.com

John Kim said...

Although I am a Christian, I am proud of the decision you made!! The LDS Church is based on lies and delusions of Joseph Smith!! I am a Honors Student and I bet Joseph Smith was going to betray the U.S. and wanted to start his own country!!

Anonymous said...

Thank you for sharing! 25 y.o. Born and raised Mormon, served a mission and all. Grew up in devout family but always questioned (albeit I'm also homosexual which also made me question as I learned at an early young age boys who like other boys were evil and bad people...I never hurt a fly!) I always had doubts but was a product of my OREM, UT environment and was the typical LDS clean cut guy. I served my mission because it was expected. But it was on my mission that I really started seeing contradictions and just getting out of Utah opened my eyes that non LDS people can be good and are happy if not happier then LDS people. I got home, went inactive (which was hard for people) came out as the REAL me (homosexual...though not your stereotypical one) and I have listened to MY own reason and thoughts rather then some old dictating mens, that religion poisons everything! It's only recently in the last year or so that atheism has become my stance. As the conditioning of the church is powerful and can take awhile to remove yourself from it! I am grateful to read about fellow LDS/Christians who I can identify with. The hardest part right now is that my family and friends are all still under the "spell" of religion and it saddens me so badly. I want them to think for themselves but I can't force them. It must be something they do themselves. I share my knowledge so maybe it's planting seeds of thought. Thanks again!

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Stephen said...

Very well written and I could relate to it. Thanks for your courage and keep it up.